Due to a problem with LAL server, this subject has been lost.

To regenerate the thread, I will start with the current Certificate of Need Application by the LAFD commissioners states that the minimum staffing for transport ambulances are 6 transport units with one being a backup.

Minimum staffing now is only 3 and occassionally it has been 2 units when they don't have enough personnel to assign that 3rd ambulance.

It would seem they need to revisit their CON and see if they can get it adjusted since the application agreement states "Minimum" would be 5 transport units.

Correct me if I am wrong Jeff.

Posted By Jeff on 23 Feb 2010 08:05 PM
 

The current COPCN was renewed in February 2009 and expires in March 2011. At the time of application with Lee County, a list of all the ALS permitted transport/ and initial response vehicles were listed  in section F of the application. There were 6 transport units(ambulances/ rescues) listed with one being a reserve and 5 non-transport initial response vehicles (4- engines, and 1 ladder). All the above units were listed as ALS permitted with Department of Health. Section F of the application states: Describe the number and type of response/transport vehicles, including the minimum number of staffed permitted response/transport units during a 24 hour period. The number and type of vehicles are listed as being staffed 24/7 excluding the reserve unit, but to my knowledge there has never been a clear "minimum"  listed. An argument could be made that all the vehicles listed are a "minimum", although a clear "minimum" is not denoted and to my knowledge a "minimum" has never has been denoted in previous applications.

Since some of the above units are no longer staffed, and may not be ALS permitted anymore, I would assume that a legal opinion was sought before decreasing the number of vehicles in service. This may have been done, I am not sure. In section #3 of the COPCN granted in February 2009 it states:  It shall be the duty of said District, upon the acceptance of the terms of this Certificate, to diligently and efficiently protect and save lives and authority is hereby granted to said District to do all things needful to such ends not inconsistent to Florida Law now in existence or which may change or hereafter be passed. District certifies it has the legal capacity to operate said ambulance services and to comply with the Laws of Florida, particularly Chapter 401, et al. Florida Statutes.

I believe that the district is doing this and is meeting the intent of FS401 and Florida Law. Whether the COPCN application needs to be modified prior to the next renewal I am not sure. Previously there have been additional ALS units added  without any changes to the COPCN application, but I don't recall units being decreased.

Darnell, you bring up a good point, maybe a current administrative member of the LAFD could answer this better than me. 

Posted By Jeff on 23 Feb 2010 08:05 PM

The current COPCN was renewed in February 2009 and expires in March 2011. At the time of application with Lee County, a list of all the ALS permitted transport/ and initial response vehicles were listed  in section F of the application. There were 6 transport units(ambulances/ rescues) listed with one being a reserve and 5 non-transport initial response vehicles (4- engines, and 1 ladder). All the above units were listed as ALS permitted with Department of Health. Section F of the application states: Describe the number and type of response/transport vehicles, including the minimum number of staffed permitted response/transport units during a 24 hour period. The number and type of vehicles are listed as being staffed 24/7 excluding the reserve unit, but to my knowledge there has never been a clear "minimum"  listed. An argument could be made that all the vehicles listed are a "minimum", although a clear "minimum" is not denoted and to my knowledge a "minimum" has never has been denoted in previous applications.

Since some of the above units are no longer staffed, and may not be ALS permitted anymore, I would assume that a legal opinion was sought before decreasing the number of vehicles in service. This may have been done, I am not sure. In section #3 of the COPCN granted in February 2009 it states:  It shall be the duty of said District, upon the acceptance of the terms of this Certificate, to diligently and efficiently protect and save lives and authority is hereby granted to said District to do all things needful to such ends not inconsistent to Florida Law now in existence or which may change or hereafter be passed. District certifies it has the legal capacity to operate said ambulance services and to comply with the Laws of Florida, particularly Chapter 401, et al. Florida Statutes.

I believe that the district is doing this and is meeting the intent of FS401 and Florida Law. Whether the COPCN application needs to be modified prior to the next renewal I am not sure. Previously there have been additional ALS units added  without any changes to the COPCN application, but I don't recall units being decreased.

I would find it prudent that the fire district formally notify Lee County the change, and that they are no longer able to provide that minimum staffing of 5 ambulances, and the ALS engines that have been removed from that status also. I would find this an obligation if service provided is decreased.

It is waiting for commissioners to vote on it now.

News-Press

I wonder what their Certificate of Need will say come 10/01/2010? Willliam James.